Sigh of Relief
Thank Deity there's still sense in the world. If a fat, 83-year-old Texas woman gets it this clearly, perhaps there's hope for us yet:
Maybe there really are more people in this country quietly sitting in their homes thinking the same things Helen expresses so clearly than there are goons crashing town hall meetings. Perhaps there's a chance -- a small one, but a chance -- that we won't go crashing back into the Middle Ages. I'm not holding my breath, but maybe I can risk a tiny sigh of relief.Margaret is it just me or did combing your hair become optional when going out in public? I’ve been watching news clips of these town hall free-for-alls and we have definitely become a nation of tired, poor, and huddled masses clearly tempest-tossed, but without access to a good beauty salon. Universal Hygiene – now that is something I could get behind. And all of them are asking for their America back. I wonder which America that would be?
Would that be the America where the Supreme Court picks your president instead of counting all the votes? Would that be the America where rights to privacy are ignored? Would that be the America where the Vice President shoots his best friend in the face? Or would that be the America where an idiot from Alaska and a college drop-out with a radio show could become the torchbearers for the now illiterate Republican party?
I fear that would not be the America they want back. I fear that the America they want back is the one where black men don’t become President.
I remember that America. In that America people screaming at public gatherings were called out for what they were – an angry mob. Of course, they wore sheets to cover up their bad hair. Let’s be clear about something: if you show up to a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to your leg, the point you are trying to make isn’t a good one. Fear never produced anything worthwhile.
posted by #1 Dinosaur @ 6:52 AM
36 comments
36 Comments:
You know, you're absolutely right.
Anyone who disagrees with anything this administration says is a gun-toting,cousin-humping,secretly-white-sheet-wearing Luddite. (Pardon...we'll use His own words: "Bitter clingers.")
Never mind that whole "Obama is continuing a number of Bush's policies -- including the ones invading privacy" nonsense.
Hyuck, hyuck, hyuck. Lookit them unwarshed, ungroomed hillbillies who are too dumb to have real opinions!
(Shall we ignore that Granny Rictus McBotox Pelosi just put her Ferragamos in her mouth by saying the protesters were "too well-dressed" to be genuine protesters? Hrm. Cognitive dissonance.)
Illiterate Republican party. Hrm. I'm fairly literate (degreed and all) and I'm a Republican. Most of my family that you've met (literate and coherent, all) are Republicans.
How lucky for us that we have the o-so-tolerant and compassionate progressives (who certainly never paint an entire segment of the population with a broad, stereotypical brush) to shepherd us into a new era of what's yours is everyone (as demonstrated in the rant you excerpted).
Fuck-a-doodle, Dino.
Helen and Margaret's writings are must reads. I only regret that they don't write more of this stuff, and more often.
Indeed there are plenty of folks sitting quietly at home shaking their heads at the hysterics and antics of of the right wing loon squads.
I wrote a bit on my blog about this, and will be adding an update linking to Helen's missive.
This comment has been removed by the author.
[long string of bug-eyed, leftist slobbering deleted]
And the award for "How much irrational stereotyping can a person fit into one blog post" goes to... Dino Doc!
How about I call you an elitist New England liberal Democrat who, unable to support her views with verifiable facts, resorts to the classic liberal tactic of appealing to emotion over intellect? A woman who supports a morally bankrupt, shady Chicago political machine hack with ties to domestic terrorists and racist religious demagogues, who never held an honest job for more than 2 years of his life, who chose an idiotic plagiarist for a VP, can't speak without a telemprompter, socialist pussy who kowtows to every leftist dictator on the globe?
Would you feel insulted? Does that accurately describe you, President Obama, or Democrats in general?
Just typing that bullshit into your comments made me gag a little, and I can only hope that you too stifled a retch when you hit the "publish" button on this woman's tripe.
"Let’s be clear about something: if you show up to a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to your leg, the point you are trying to make isn’t a good one. Fear never produced anything worthwhile."
Why fear a man openly exercising his rights? He was less physically threatening than the two Black Panthers intimidating voters outside a Philly polling place on November 4th.
Seems to me, the only people wetting their pants over the whole issue were the two MSNBC hacks posing as journalists who reported the story.
If anything, I was disappointed that the guy would be so astonishingly gauche as to carry his weapon in a drop thigh holster instead of something tasteful.
If the sight of a law-abiding citizen exercising his Constitutional right is something that strikes fear in you (or an 83 year old lady from Texas), your projection issues are deeper than that inanimate object strapped to his leg.
Our political views differ in many ways, Lucy, but I consider you a friend because, 99% of the time, you can discuss and debate your views reasonably and rationally. Your opinions are reasoned ones, and those I can accept even if I don't agree.
But for this 1%, you took a biiiig step leftward over into liberal moonbat territory, and doing so puts your credibility right down there in the toilet with Rush Limbaugh's.
That goes for you too, Mule Breath
Oh for the love of all that's holy, Dino. This is a piece of pathetic tripe.
Sara Palin is vilified because the libs and Rhinos are deathly afraid of her. Why? Because the woman makes sense. She understands and remembers the foundations our country was built upon and knows that is the only way to keep America from slip-sliding into Russialand.
For all the vilification, one would think that she was proposing to allow the government free reign to pick the pockets of those who produce the most wealth through their hard work and ingenuity.
One would think she buddied up with Rushie to create a society where there are two sets of medical standards; one that is forced upon Americans to receive rationed medical care and that allows the politicians to maintain their own fabulous medical care.
One would think Sara went around the world apologizing for America's greatness and wanted to bring us down to the level of third world nations by taxing us to death.
One would think Sara was all about nationalizing the banks and car industry.
One would think Sara was going to attack the car execs for flying private jets to Washington, then ordering up a fleet of jets for the political elite. Oh, and for kicks, Sara would take The First Dude, her kids, and grandkid to New York for dinner and a play - just to show that she's "one of us."
Oh. Wait. That's Obama, isn't it?
I never thought I'd see the day where I'd say "Welcome to Amerika." What an effing pity. I'll take Sara and Rushie's idea of freedom and free market over oppression and socialism.
That desert island is lookin' pretty good 'bout now.
So sorry to appear moonbatty to you, AD, but you know damn good and well that I'm no such thing. Obviously, at least in this instance, you fail to be able to see past your entrenched beliefs.
Where we differ is obvious, as evidenced by your inability to see (or at least to admit) moonbattiness and the over-the-edge thuggery of some of those professing to be on your side. Yet you easily recognizing it in others who condemn the actions of the unruly and impolite vandals.
But I don’t hold it against you, AD, as you are far from alone. This malady seems to be systemic. Neither end seems able to recognize the middle, and politically, in this country, we have truly polarized to the far ends. Moderation is becoming rare, and taking a stand even slightly to either side of middle automatically gets a moderate tagged as a nut by those entrenched in the opposite side.
Dino, it's a shame that some of your readers can't tell the difference between comments aimed at people who disrupt public meetings, refusing to let any views other than their own be aired, versus those who sensibly disagree with something.
The mistake the Dems have made is in holding, well, democratic meetings. They should have taken a leaf from Dubya's book, filled the room with people they have vetted in advance for their views, and relegated everyone else to "free speech" areas a couple of blocks away.
"They should have taken a leaf from Dubya's book, filled the room with people they have vetted in advance for their views, and relegated everyone else to "free speech" areas a couple of blocks away."
Um, that's exactly what they have been doing.
Feel superior now?
AD, if they are doing that, how are we getting so much coverage both in the MSM and on the social sites of meeting after meeting after meeting melting down under the weight of people waving signs and screaming slogans?
I am just so encouraged to see that the thesis statement in a four paragraph rant about health care protesters is all about the their hair care practices. It says so much about the priorities of the writer.
I hope for your sake Helen and all who think like her, that your death counselor has an appropriate coiffure to your liking. That is what is really important, right?
Obama BUSSES IN supporters to his town hall meeting: http://www.wmur.com/video/20358253/index.html
SEIU recruits other union members to "drown out" protesters at town hall meetings: http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/seiu_recruits_obamacare_suppor.asp
Obama calls on liberal bloggers to keep putting pressure on Congress at town hall meetings to quell opposition: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/obama-calls-on-bloggers-t_n_241570.html
Organizing for America (mybarackobama.com) sends out a email encouraging "spontaneous" shouting down of protesters at town halls: http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=13419
"Community Organizing" at its finest, and it;'s only acceptable if it's on the Lefty side.
Bleh.
Good grief Doc! I enjoy reading your blog, but this is going to make me rethink my obviously flawed thinking.
The 2000 election? Really?? Are we still there after 8 recounts? I thought a scientist (which most MDs believe they are) would have a better grasp of the facts. You shouldn't support such thoroughly debunked tripe. I guess it's ok for the Supreme Court to decide if you can continue to own your property or excuse me, for the Court to decide if "that person" can own "their" property.
Hypocratically Doc, which is worse, having a hunting accident or voting to allow new born babies to be starved to death or to allow just outright killing them?
An idiot from Alaska? C'mon Doc. You can't see far enough past your prejudice to appreciate that a woman achieved the highest executive office in one of our 50 States? Are you too confused between the comedian on SNL and the real person? It's amazing that someone who triumphed over the obstacles that were put in her way (because she is a woman) could not see anything remarkable in Ms. Palin's accomplishment simply because their politics don't agree. I said the same when N.O.W. tossed her under the bus as well. Say what you like about Ms. Palin but idiot isn't a valid comment. Her accomplishments have shown the opposite.
I guess the radio host is Limbaugh but denigrating him for not continuing college is pretty stupid. The guy makes more in a week than you, Helen and Margaret combined make in a year. What on earth would he have gained by finishing college other than perhaps garnering you three girls' respect. Considering what you have typed he wouldn't have gotten it anyway, so no big loss.
While you stand behind Maggie and Hels on someone LEGALLY toting a gun outside a town hall meeting, were you silent while the Black Panther guys stood in front of a polling place in Philly, in uniform swinging their nightsticks? Maybe this was OK as their politics agree with yours.
Republican's and conservatives have always been an inclusive group and blacks, yellows, purples and greens are all welcome. I remember which party tried to block the civil rights movement, I remember what party did what to Clarence Thomas, I know what party or philosophy Tomas Sowell subscribes to and I'm proud to be included in their group. Most of the racism I see in this country all comes from the left. After all, it's better to say the white policeman acted stupidly than to say, maybe we better find out some more facts.
I am truly amazed that you would follow these two socialist gals oh so fictional posts. Looking at how the current administration is about to strip you of your livelyhood, one can only say, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
Let me ask you something Doc. Are you one of the Doctors that Pres. Obama talks about when he says doctors will take out your tonsils instead of treating a sore throat, because it pays more? Pres. Obmama also said you get $50k for cutting off a diabetic's foot. After all he said it so it must be true, right?
I agree with you 100%, Dino.
Are you sure that's not Abe Simpson writing under another name?
Because believe me, I love being smeared as a right-wing (truth: unaffiliated, formerly Democratic) thug organized to visit Sen. Spector's town-hall meeting (if by organized you mean getting a card from his office) and concerned that a 1,300-page bill -- of which there are between three and five versions running around Congress -- is being unseemly pushed hard and fast, especially when we're told that most lawmakers have not read the bill, and none of them would be affected in the least by its provisions.
And Grandma Simpson is worried about whether I brushed my hair that morning.
Glad to see she has her priorities in order.
ITA with you Dino, and I bless the day you first linked to Margaret and Helen. I wouldn't have known of them otherwise.
I have to agree that the more they shout the less likely it is that what they have to say is fact based.
Dammit, I am a Republican. Probably a RhINO, as someone upthread said. I am getting tired of being associated with people who shout and bully, and for whom telling lies seem to be second nature. I don't like spittle flecked hotheads representing me in this debate.
Unfortunately, Matt M., if you oppose the health care reform bill and go to a town hall meeting to ask questions, you're being painted as a "spittle-flecked hothead," as seen by what Dino quoted.
I'm NOT a tea partier, I'm not showing up and screaming....but I don't support this health care reform bill at all. That makes me a right-wing nutjob, according to a lot of people -- particularly if I went to a town hall and said so.
Be sure that when I DO go, I'll be meticulously well-groomed, lest I offend the sensibilities of Margaret and Helen. And Dino.
Thank God I've already had my tonsils out, lest Dino be on a crusade to remove them for the phat $$$. *snerk*
Cranky, no one has any issue with the fact that you disagree. I think writing blog posts that are fact-based (rather than those that talk about death panels) is very American. I think going to a town hall meeting and asking sharp questions is downright patriotic. I think standing in front of a town hall meeting and waving a sign is fine.
What I have an issue with -- and what Margaret and Helen have an issue with -- is the people who essentially end the meeting by shouting everyone else down.
If you have a valid point, make it. There SHOULD be debate here. What there should not be is people insisting that if they don't agree, THEN NOBODY CAN TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE! NOBODY! TYRANNY! SOCIALISM! DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT MESSING WITH MY MEDICARE!
"AD, if they are doing that, how are we getting so much coverage both in the MSM and on the social sites of meeting after meeting after meeting melting down under the weight of people waving signs and screaming slogans?"
Because the mainstream media is Obama's primary Astroturf organization. They've abandoned all pretense of objectivity long ago.
I hate to burst your self-righteous little bubbles, but I don't support the bill either. It doesn't actually "reform" anything, provides an enormous loophole for med-mal lawyers to make even more money (because we know how much they're all hurting) and will no doubt eventually have just as many conditions attached to get the "end of life counseling session" paid as does the "Welcome to Medicare" physical, so I probably won't bother billing for it.
It's full of expensive nonsense that's ridiculously unlikely to accomplish anything useful, and I resent the way it's being railroaded through Congress and rammed down our throats.
None of which happens to have anything to do with disrupting town hall meetings.
And Cranky, your tonsils may be out of reach, but I can still get to your children. I do have three kids in college, you know.
The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.Obama is a graduate of the Chicago Political Machine-he graduated with honors and was rewarded with a Senate seat and ultimately the Presidency. Why would he change his behavior when his past behavior has rewarded him greatly.
My issue with Obama is not that he is black, or a democrat, or a socialist, or a friend of an admitted American terrorist whose only remorse is that" I did not do more" or an eliteist but rather he is a professional politician-an individual who panders to special interests groups in exchange for their support. There have been plenty of Republicans who have done the same and I think about an equal mix of Dems and Reps in jail for that- Perhaps more from Illinois than any other State though.
Is he a gifted speaker, yes (he can). However, his words and his actions do not synch up. So far I have no reason to believe that he cares about anything/anyone other than himself.
His body language(chin up/head back) when asked a question that he objects to, suggests his irritation with being challenged. His reminding the Press Corps that he "is the President" marks the point at which this discussion is over. As for his health care plan, I think there are elements that have merit; I do believe that every American has a right to access to health care. To achieve that Obama will have to be able to control physicians beyond economics-someone will have to practice in Appalachia-or Lovelock Nevada, or Goshen California, or Doris Oregon.
So.. Dino I think our President has plans to become your Boss,and from his perpective the sooner the better-remember one of his messages is "we cannot afford to wait-we must act now". I do hope I am wrong on this because the good doctors will find other things to do and leave medicine-the bad doctors, will not.
Forgot to add one thng that ties back to Palin"I can see Russia..., If Obama looks North East he can see Russian Akula attack subs showing the flag.. I wonder why,
I think the opposition to Obama has raised its profile and volume to such an extent that it seems larger than it is.
Actually people are still mulling this over:
http://pollingreport.com/health.htm
The most vociferous critics seem to have other agendas and gripes, and are using a contentious issue like health care reform to scream and holler.
I admire anyone who puts their neck into the guillotine of health care reform, whether I agree with them or not. Its too easy to accept the unsustainable status quo that bankrupts our families and small businesses, and even easier to shout incoherently and stir fears with what most would consider hateful accusations - "Nazism" and "Death Panels".
Oh, Dino. Good luck.
You KNOW my kids fight dirty!
:) :) :)
(Bring your camera on Saturday. Mine went tits-up. And I have Hatter Tea pictures for you.)
Well, I think I'll delete your link in my favorites like I did for Mule Breath. If you were my doctor, you would have just been fired like my barber.
Enjoy your slide.
CrankyLitProf sites stories about Dems bringing crowds to town hall meetings:
Okay, so we're to understand that it's the Democrats who are staging these outbursts? That all of the people who chant and wave signs and disrupt the meetings are Obama supporters in disguise?
Anon at 11:20 AM said, "They should have taken a leaf from Dubya's book, filled the room with people they have vetted in advance for their views, and relegated everyone else to "free speech" areas a couple of blocks away."
I was merely indicating that the Dems were, in fact, filling meetings with people they had vetted, and who wholly supported their agenda.
Jon is deleting your bookmark from his favorites over your post. I am buying your book because I like this post so much.
Well, it'll take a lot more than a little spat like this to make me delete yours or Mule Breath's bookmarks, or make me less of a fan.
And on the subject of hoplophobia, I fully intend to get a bunch of us bitter clinging gun nuts (some of whom read your blog, BTW) to take you shooting next time I'm in Yankee country.
Whaddaya say, Dino? Are you game for embracing your latent redneck?
When Bush did events, it would turn out when you got there that some people had tickets, although nothing about tickets had been mentioned in any of the announcements or press regarding the event. Naturally, ticket holders had priority.
Well, of course there were more ticket holders than the venue would hold. So no one without a ticket would get into the main area; automatically you were going into the overflow area.
Periodically a couple of organizers and a couple of cops would walk the line. Anyone wearing a T-shirt or carrying a sign with any kind of dissenting message would be escorted to a "free speech" area out of sight of the press and the president. It was a security matter. (I don't know what would have happened if they saw someone exercising his constitutional right to carry a gun.)
If the Dems handled these town hall meetings the same way, the crowds would be much more respectful. There would be no shouting and very little dissent.
Would it be good for the country? I don't actually think it would. While I think the health care system needs changing, I think the current proposals really amount to a giant gift package for health insurance companies (the same way Bush's proposed Social Security reforms would have been a giant gift package for stockbrokers). I don't think what has been proposed so far is going to hold down costs, make the practice of medicine easier for doctors or give many more citizens the security of knowing they could go to the doctor without going broke.
We need earnest, civilized dialog. From all sides.
What I want is a return to the Constitution. The Federal Gov't doesn't have the enumerated powers to do the things they are doing.
The limits that were built into the Constitution to rein in the Federal system have been broken a long time. It makes no difference which party holds power, I remember all the Bush=Hitler signs and all the concern over the Patriot Act, most of which I shared.
On your comment about fear. Fear is what the Obama administration and the Congress are using, and I agree that it isn't producing anything worthwhile.
The only goons at the town hall meetings are the ones the Dems bus in to intimidate and harass the citizens that have come to voice their concerns.
One followup, the incoming head of the Canadian Medical Solicitation said yesterday that the Canadian system is not sustainable, and wants to lead the way back to fee for service.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw
Why do we want to emulate this?
The snarkfest here makes it pretty clear that there's a lot of incivility on both sides.
For the record, I went to a town hall last week. The Congressman who hosted it is a Democrat. You didn't have to have a ticket to get in. They set up a podium with a microphone. If you wanted to comment, you had to wait in line and use the podium. For the most part, it was quite orderly. I didn't see any evidence of groups being purposely bused in for the sake of protest. There was a small group of people who were in a twit about cap and trade and were passing around a petition, but I wouldn't say they were the majority.
Mostly, people seemed to be there to listen and to hear what's going on. There was a lot of applause for various speakers, some cheers, some catcalls. Maybe more lively than a lot of town hall meetings but not out of hand.
It can be done, but first you have to decide you're going to behave like a civilized adult. You can disagree with Dino if you want; it's a free country. You can even insult her if you want - but remember the language you choose and the way you behave reflects right back on you.
Very interesting find! There's so much in the political air lately, and though I aim to ignore it for sake of my own sanity (ignorant, yes. Conscious, yes. Better off? I think so...)
However this is such a well written editorial, and it begs the questions many people carelessly toss aside. I think Helen said very well: Which America might that be?
Our political lines may be blurring, but that may mean we need to reconsider some of the basic beliefs that have been driven into our heads for the sake of government support. Fear, does in fact, produce little that is worthwhile. Nicely done, and thanks for sharing with us!
Wow. Sarah Palin makes sense? On what planet?
Teh wowz, you do attract some crayzee don't you?
@ASM826:
1. Canadian Medical Solicitation? Oh-kay. Not the CMA? I know the incoming head needs her head looking at, but I'm not sure that's who you mean.
2. Canada IS fee-for-service, and is moving AWAY from it, toward capitation-type models. Our FHN is becoming a FHO shortly, for example. If you are going to compare yourself to Canada, get your facts straight. The government's only role in healthcare here is to pay what we bill, and they don't argue about it.
@ whoever is bothered by the 'hair' comments by Margaret and Helen: you need to read their other stuff and grow a sense of humour. They're far to old to be worried what you think anyhow.
I'm not shocked Obama would bus people in and encourage his supporters to fight fire with fire. The Hitler comparisons have been distinctly unfunny and you'd think republicans would call for that nonsense to stop, but if democrats have to use the opposition's tactics well boohoohoo.
And Sarah Palin making sense? To quote someone who did make sense, what planet do you spend most of your time on?
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